What's scaring away new players?

General chat and banter about Pleasantville by Night

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Salen » Wed May 16, 2012 8:23 pm

yeah nice info, and as for knowing what to attack or not to attack that was part of the fun for me actually. spading out what i can hit or not. especially now that we gain favor for all societies and save it up unlike the other game where it just threw you one way or another. very rarely am i losing favor (unless i just want to hit a demon for giggles LOL) stay and have fun, especially with us BROs, were all sick in the head anyway
[*]Everything must burn[*]
Salen
Werehippie
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Spang11 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Another quick addition to this list, although obviously I don't know if it is something that puts off other new players: Back when I first joined last round, and started in Weirdfellows, I looked around the society and got the broad impression that a bunch of stuff there wasn't implemented, because of the messages I found; when they later changed I couldn't remember exactly what they said but I see now we've reset that they're pretty much what I thought:
"There are currently no missions".
There may have been similar messages for Services at the time, but now there's the hunger-inducing service available so we can forget about that one for now.

In any case, originally I read this as "This game is quite new so we haven't implemented any missions yet", but decided to get on a little with the tutorial thing anyhow. Then a little later in the lodge I happened to check again and I saw that missions were available for whatever reasons.

So I'd suggest some sort of alternate wording based on why there are no missions at whatever time, eg:
"We do have a mission that needs doing, but we're not sure you're ready for it yet" if it's based on stats, or
"We'd like you to prove your dedication to the cause a little more before we entrust you with a(nother) mission" if it's based on favour. Something like that. This would presumably need separate messages for when you already have a mission ("You already have a mission to be getting on with!") or when there are no more missions (which I guess would also count as having a very important mission to get on with! :D ), so it might make for more complicated code unless you find a message that covers all the options at once. Hope this helps :)

(Edit: I notice they do mention checking for missions at the very end of the tutorial at least, so maybe it's not that much of an issue, I dunno)
Spang11
Pledge
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Taylor » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:22 pm

Actually, the only reason the mission screen is ever empty is when you already have a mission, so I'll just change that text to tell you to look at the mission reminder.
Taylor
Site Admin
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby zydecopolka » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:22 am

My pet peeves,
1. The trash cans seem impossible to defeat day 1, and are often unavoidable when you choose to fight anything else.
2. Being forced to resume play from the hospital after "potting the black" (where is that from, btw, never heard it before),
3. Starting out with 0 gear and the craptastic butter knife or rubberband gun our only options. Broken bottles are better and that's just sad.
4. The junkyard throw stuff away as opposed to straight autosell. Stuff's expensive, money scarce when starting. I only discovered the junkyard functions as autosell when I got fed up with my ridiculous inventory.
5. The sudden ambush battle that prevent you from reading the results of the previous battle.

All that negativity aside, I did enjoy playing and I think small details could improve new player satisfaction.
zydecopolka
Zombie Nerd
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:34 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Taylor » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:13 am

zydecopolka wrote:My pet peeves,
1. The trash cans seem impossible to defeat day 1, and are often unavoidable when you choose to fight anything else.
2. Being forced to resume play from the hospital after "potting the black" (where is that from, btw, never heard it before),
3. Starting out with 0 gear and the craptastic butter knife or rubberband gun our only options. Broken bottles are better and that's just sad.

1: Should it be so that all the city streets-level enemies are defeatable from the getgo?
2: I could make it so that you can just wander around with no health. But then if you didn't have medikits you'd have to go back to the hospital (and also the hospital wouldn't automatically heal you for free if you're poor).
3: You're supposed to find other stuff to use fairly quickly, so I don't really have a problem with this as such...but it may be a problem if low-level weapons are too hard to come by or if both those weapons are completely inferior to just using your fists. Are either of those the case?

zydecopolka wrote:4. The junkyard throw stuff away as opposed to straight autosell. Stuff's expensive, money scarce when starting. I only discovered the junkyard functions as autosell when I got fed up with my ridiculous inventory.

You're right. Having to go to the junkyard to sell stuff is stupid. I took the junkyard out and you can now autosell from anywhere.

zydecopolka wrote:5. The sudden ambush battle that prevent you from reading the results of the previous battle.

I've changed the way the battle results page displays, and stopped anything from happening until you click continue.
Taylor
Site Admin
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby zydecopolka » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:41 pm

Rickton wrote:1: Should it be so that all the city streets-level enemies are defeatable from the getgo?
2: I could make it so that you can just wander around with no health. But then if you didn't have medikits you'd have to go back to the hospital (and also the hospital wouldn't automatically heal you for free if you're poor).
3: You're supposed to find other stuff to use fairly quickly, so I don't really have a problem with this as such...but it may be a problem if low-level weapons are too hard to come by or if both those weapons are completely inferior to just using your fists. Are either of those the case?



I don't think anyone wants beginning battles reduced to a farce, but it would be nice if our fists even *worked*. I remember trying to beat up a trash can last round and my fists having absolutely no effect whatsoever. Maybe beginning text could be something like "You wake up with a hangover the size of Cleveland, a broken bottle of (vodka, rum, whatever) clenched in each fist, must have been a great party"! Or maybe the price of the butter knife/rubber band gun could be reduced, along with the price of rubber bands, say, a box of 100 rubber bands for $5, butter knife/gun $5 each. I mean, since they're crap and have no real enchantments/purpose other than to beat up stuff with something other than your fists. Just some ideas :D

2. That just doesn't make any sense at all. I probably didn't make myself clear enough. It's not that I object to being treated at the hospital, but that we have to resume our journey from the hospital square, it's just annoying. I understand it makes sense within the game itself. I don't think that's a major factor in new player satisfaction, it is a surprise though when you're not expecting it.

3. Finding other stuff does come quickly once you manage to survive your first 5 battles or so, until then you're screwed and just end up at the hospital every other turn or so. And basically to survive 5 battles you need to have more bystanders jump in on your side and hope they do a lot of damage before you "die". But yes, low level weapons are fairly hard to come by, and both the starting weapons suck compared to your fists. I didn't even bother buying a rubber band gun, as soon as I found two broken bottles I ditched the butter knives.

It could very well be me, but, starting a game with getting your ass handed to you for the first 5/10 turns just isn't very fun. I don't think any drastic solutions are necessary, just something to make it survivable should be enough, I think.
zydecopolka
Zombie Nerd
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:34 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Salen » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:07 pm

actually the first thing i do after all the mandatory fights is run to the shopping mall and buy a hammer for 50$. it's well woth the cost and i know my money is going to go away when i die so at least i have an awesome weapon to start the game with. after 5 or 6 fights i always seem to get a trenchcoat and some other weapon (bottle of something to bash some one with and break it, or even a stake. and if you go right to the liquor store and buy 2 beers, drink them and use them in battle...pow, two broken bottle as well. it took me three cycles to figure all that out but it was fun doing it.
[*]Everything must burn[*]
Salen
Werehippie
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby sfericz » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:18 pm

At the first, I would pick my battles to make sure its just one enemy i'm attacking with backup on my side. Once i'm at 2 unarmed, I start fighting the trashcans for Trashcan Lids and broken bottles. Once I get 3 weaponary, I start going for the vigilante until I get the bat. Go make a nailbat then your set.

My best tip for new players would be to pick your first battles. Make sure to runaway from the tough ones. Also the trashcans don't take much damage from weapons it looks like. Going unarmed with them is the best choice.
sfericz
Pledge
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 3:21 am

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Spang11 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:25 pm

Hm. Personally I don't haver any problem with restarting from the hospital when I die: It's happened many times to me now, but I normally see dying as something to try to avoid anyway?! :D After a bit it becomes easier. All I do, is if I find myself facing someone who I'm pretty sure will kill me, and I don't want to be killed (there are times when I use it as a free heal, if my HP's low and I've spent most of my cash), I click "run away". Sometimes, eg if I'm trudging through the mazes, I click it a lot, which does make the drop-down menu interface a bit tedious but there you go. (Salen: I typically do something similar to you, but I usually buy medikits of whichever size, as these are always useful unless I have lots, which I only do for small ones, or teddy bears, once I discovered what they were for; and don't forget you only pay for the hospital treatment if it costs less than half your cash)

I think the point Zydecopolka was making about the posessed trash cans, was that if all battles involve an enemy joining in that you can't defeat, it effectively means no low-level enemies are defeatable from the get-go in fact. Now certainly I don't think this is the case, as clearly there are locations where there are only a few monsters, or only easy ones, and even where there's several tough ones, they don't always join in (And sometimes you get allies, too). It does seem to happen quite a lot of the time though. Again, as you can always run away, whichever side started the fight, with little penalty besides effects wearing off, it's not insurmountable, but sometimes it does get a bit tedious trying for a viable battle again and again. I'd imagine some sort of tweak to who "joins the fray" and when and on which side, might make a difference, but what would be the best approach is probably not an easy decision. It might also get easier further into the round when stronger players are around to mop up rooms with larger groups of tough monsters, in theory.

(A quick hint to Zydecopolka BTW: the trash cans are a LOT easier if you get bio-protection, eg from a lab coat. Not much help to actual newbies though I guess)

I got caught out by the junkyard too, I only discovered it right towards the end of the last round, when I threw something away out of curiosity. I certainly went there before that, I go everywhere to explore. I don't have a problem with that use for the place at all, but think it'd be fine if it just gave some sort of a hint that you get money from it, because it's unexpected. I previously got the impression this was what Zdevopolka was saying too, but maybe I misread him. Walking across the main city should take no more than 6 turns, it's no big deal, and it's nice to have locations that do stuff.

I'm not that down on the rubber-band gun and butter knife. I'm still using mine :D They're fine IMO against any enemy you should be considering fighting at those early stages of the game, eg nerds and dogs and maybe the occasional imp or cherub or slime. Both of these and your fists become better quickly with practice, and in fact that is one major use for them: because they don't kill many enemies VERY quickly, your skills get trained more. Considering the price of rubber bands vs bullets (assuming you can even find a gun later), and the aforementioned difficulty finding a manageable battle in the very start, that's no bad thing.

Am liking the fix to the battle result page BTW Rickton, I'd meant to mention that glitch myself but forgot.
Spang11
Pledge
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: What's scaring away new players?

Postby Taylor » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:36 am

Thanks for the feedback. I've decreased the trash can's damage resistance to slashing and stabbing damage. I'll be taking a look at the code sometime soon to tweak it so that you're less likely to get mobbed as a newbie.
Taylor
Site Admin
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Central Square

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron